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Talk:States of matter
What state of matter is steam? Is it non state element like thunder? Myven18 11:47, 12 August 2008 (UTC) :Steam is a wood-solid. It will stay in place, but can be moved with things like drag and wind. --Sand master 19:05, 12 August 2008 (UTC) ::I think it's pointless to have the extra states of matter, just have solid, powder, liquid, maybe gas, and other. 'cuz having a category for a single thing is stupid. --cuckooman (talk) 02:59, 18 August 2008 (UTC) :::okay, so you tell me what state of matter thunder is. --Sand master 20:43, 18 August 2008 (UTC) ::::Other. Along with steam and fire. By the way, indent your replies with :s, with one more than the message you're replying. Like if/when you reply this, use five :s. It makes it easier to read. --cuckooman (talk) 03:36, 19 August 2008 (UTC) technically, Fire is a plasma. And a plasma is an ionized gas, in which a certain proportion of electrons are free rather than being bound to an atom or molecule. --Swearingworth 20:00, 23 September 2008 (UTC) I don't think calling steam a "wood-solid" is right. I would call it a gas for a lot of reasons: # This is only confusing. Steam a solid? In which alternate reality??? # Steam moves! A very slight air movement is enough to blow it away. Other solids are not affected by air movement. # We don't know if steam is not more like a powder (falling downwards) or a gas (drifting upwards). The problem that steam disappears very fast. So we can not tell if it would start moving on it's own if it would exist for a longer time than half a second. # Steam is in real the world a gas, and it also behaves like one in Powder Game. # Everything we wrote for a gas in PG also applies to steam! # What is a "wood-solid"? This is an artificial term, nothing real. So what makes steam similar to wood? --Justme2 12:12, 3 December 2008 (UTC) A wood dolid is coined because wood was the first well-known exception to the solids category, being draggable and such. *Wood solids are simply solids that move under certain exceptions: *Steam actually will NOT move unless some force is acting upon it, even if it only needs the slightest amount of wind, it is still an exception. *Metal is not destroyable with bomb, and moves several pixels away after impact. Such that these solids are expections to the universal rule of a solid, they are categorized as wood-solids. Actually, I did not put metal there. I do wonder whether being moved via element reaction is considered an exception or not... --Sand master 22:37, 4 December 2008 (UTC) We definitly have to rethink the definition of solid! The basic idea "does not move" is pretty bad for several reasons. I'll show some tomorrow and I'll try formulating a better characterization and classification (see also Wikipedia: Solid). And could you please provide some references for the term "wood-solid"? I have never seen it, neither in the ODBF nor at the comments. I therefore wouldn't use it. --Justme2 00:22, 5 December 2008 (UTC) That's odd. I'm sure the ODBF used it before... Either way, the current definition for solid is 'an object whose position unaffected by nonchemical forces that normaly affect powders, liquids, ang gasses.' That means a solid is not affected by winds (Ice is an exception, but does not MOVE) A solid is not affected by drag And other such things. A wood solid is an object that moves due to such tools. I'm skepticle about the metal, which only moves through a chemical (elemental) recation, when in contact with bomb. --Sand master 02:41, 5 December 2008 (UTC) Plasms I think that plasmas shoudlnt be in exceptions - its a state of matterlike other. Myven 06:56, 5 December 2008 (UTC) It was an exception, as only a single element was in the group. With the addition of laser, I thinkg it should be changed to be an actual group.-- 13:09, 5 December 2008 (UTC) New classification (Draft) Please note: The following list is just a draft at the moment, which I saved because I can finish it and I want to do something else now. You might want to save your comments until it is finished. --Justme2 19:10, 10 December 2008 (UTC) * Solid ** Definition: ** Attributes: ** Elements: ***C-4 ***Clone ***Ice ***Metal ***Torch ***Wood * Powder ** Definition: ** Attributes: ** Elements: ***Bomb ***Fireworks ***Gunpowder ***Powder ***Seed ***Snow ***Stone ***Superball * Liquid ** Definition: ** Attributes: ***uncharged Ant ***Magma ***Nitro ***Oil ***Soapy ***Virus ***Water * Gas (including Plasma) ** Definition: ** Attributes: ***Air (might not be considered as a real element at all) ***Fire ***Gas ***Steam * Other ** Elements: ***charged Ant (might be also considered as solid) ***Fan ***Laser ***Thunder Sandmaster, you have done some edits to my draft, which have now been reverted by me. What I wanted to do here, is not to make the old classification more detailled, I wanted to suggest a completly new classification which is based on reality. In reality "not moving" / "moving like this" / "moving like that" are not valid definitions for a classification involing the terms "Liquid", "Solid" and "Gas". If you start from reality nearly ever single of your edits (except for the uncharged ant) is wrong, and I can show this in detail if you like me to do it. Also the old movement based classification isn't even consequent. For example Fire doesn't move on it's own. But it generates air movement wile existing. And only the air movement moves the fire. A single dot of fire will in most cases stay on the same spot. You can see this, if you compare a single dot of fire and steam next to each other. If the fire starts moving the steam will also move. And this proves it's only the air movement, which moves both of them. So if you are classifying steam to be a special type of solid, then fire is also solid! What I want to do is: * Provide definitions which mainly correspond to real word definitions for the states of matter. * Show that based on these definitions most of the Powder Game elements are classified in the same way as the corresponding element/stuff/whatever in reality. (uncharged Ant will be an exception). * Show that the elements in the given classes share some common attributes (in addition to those in the definition), to show the classification actually makes sense. And therefore this will show there is no need to use artificial definitions, which don't have anything to do with the real world, and even invent term like "wood-solid". * When it's done I'll show to all of you the new suggested classification, and let you decide. That's why I'm writing it in the talk and not in the article. If you don't like my suggestion you should come up with an own suggestion for the classification. (You can start by copying your edited version from the history, if you want.) --Justme2 18:27, 11 December 2008 (UTC) New List It freaking sucks. Superball is NOT a living powder Plasmas are NOT exceptions Metal has been declared a non-exception as it moves by chemical reaction --(SANDMASTER) 15:52, 8 January 2009 (UTC) =WOOD SOLID ISSUE FIXED= With the introduction of 'vine,' we should be able to make all wood solids 'plants.'--Sandmaster Ummmmmm Yeah, about Ant being 3 different states according to this article? I think we need to fix that. ''page/ '' 12:31, September 24, 2009 (UTC) new classifaction I, Ganondox, created a new states of mater that actually fits their behavior on the forums. It has a almost complete and accurate description of all states. The old system grouped too many elements with completely different behavior together. :but there's nothing wrong with the old system, all we need to do is add a subcategory for living powders (currently in the others section), I personally think steam should be moved into the semi-solids (although its debatable) and like somebody mentioned earlier, with the ball update, its been proven that ant is NOT a liquid, so we should take that off Laser is a solid I have a feeling I'm going to be hated after this by messing up the plasma list, but isn't laser a solid? It has already been proven that laser itself does not move (the best way to tell is by joining it; another way is by having a non-reactive non-solid element or object ball on Powder Game 1 only rest upon it: the element or object does not move with the laser). It only appears to be moving because it is charged, a.k.a. makes its special property happen once certain criteria are met, the property which resets after reloading (which explains almost everything why laser behaves the way it does). Everything else that qualifies it as a plasma also qualifies it as a solid (i.e. not being able to be dragged or affected by wind). That's why I believe it's an unstable solid, not a plasma. Where the party's at [[User:$igma|'Σ']] 02:30, October 10, 2014 (UTC) : Yeah, now that you mention it, I agree. I mean, the biggest point is that laser never actually moves (as can be seen on Powder Game 2 if joined). Instead, it just creates another dot in the direction that it's "traveling." Something definitly needs to be changed. : This reminds me of reading a few older talk-page posts that said fire fas a powder affected by wind. (only I don't agree with that belief). (file:xparasite gif.gif(Starrysock (talk) 04:20, October 10, 2014 (UTC) : If there aren't any objections, I'll make the changes. Where the party's at [[User:$igma|'Σ']] 21:49, October 13, 2014 (UTC) True states In the game's code, the states of matter are: (I chose these names, normally they are just represented by numbers 0-5) none (fan,steam) powder (powder,seed,gunpowder,snow,superball,fireworks,stone,virus,ant,bomb,salt) liquid (water,oil,nitro,soapy,acid,saltwater,mercury) hot (fire,magma,torch,thunder,laser,spark) solid (wood,ice,clone,c4,metal,vine,glass,fuse,pump) gas (gas,bird,cloud) This only controls reactions with other elements (for example, powder is burned by "hot" elements), and the actual properties (like solids not being affected by gravity, liquids flowing, etc.) are hardcoded. For example, wood and vine's movement speeds are multiplied by 0.3 on each simulation step, so it can only be moved by dragging or large explosions, while normal solids' velocities are always set directly to 0. 12Me21 (talk) 17:52, November 9, 2017 (UTC)